Køb af læderdragt/beskyttelse

[nyg]

Her er en lille beskrivelse og et par gode råd om køb af læderdragt/beskyttelse/støvler.

Interessant læsning for alle, også selvom man ikke står for at købe læderdragt.

Martin Fitzpatrick's Guide to Motorcycle Leathers
Original artical posted to Ixion by :
mfitzpatrick@scot.bbc.co.uk        Martin Fitzpatrick at BBC Scotland

Artical reposted to Ixion by:
etlgyas@etlxd20.ericsson.se        Geoff Adams


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How do you tell good leathers from bad ? This is a question that has been bothering me a lot of late, and I've been taking a look into the whole thing. I've taken a bit of time and trouble to dig up the information, and I thought someone out there might benefit from it; especially since one thing has become clear to me - you do not always get what you pay for.
The waters are very muddied, claims and counter claims abound, and it's all pretty difficult to make sense of. I've spent time reading magazine articles, reading sales brochures, talking to experts and talking to assholes. The result is an IMPRESSION of what to look for in good leathers - feel free to agree or disagree, but do me one favour - don't confuse the issue too much with your postings. I'll be glad to get mail about anything you want to discuss, but please only post stuff that you think will contribute to the thread. Thanks.

Also, I see a lot of "I know better than you / No you don't / Yes I do" crap out there. In posting this stuff I'm not trying to prove that I'm the god of leathers or some shit. I admit openly that I know diddly-squat about the subject - I'm only posting this because if some poor sucker out there knows less about it than me (and I fell into that category a few weeks ago), then they might appreciate this information (I know I would have). Don't flame me for being a smartass - I'll just get angry and you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Also, please don't turn this into a discussion about whether leathers are a good thing/necessity/waste of time - I have plenty of views on that subject myself, but this is neither the time nor the place.

Okay, so I walk into a shop and they've got rows and rows of leathers. Where do I start ? Well, there are a lot that you can just walk right by, but you probably knew that already. Anything that looks more like a bondage jacket than a motorcycle jacket probably is what it looks like. Little straps on the shoulders, tassels (pleeeease !), studs (you-gotta-be-fuckin-kidding), distressed leather (you would be too), zip-off sleeves (no, really I have seen it, honest), ultra-soft leather, baggy jackets - even if you like these things, it should be obvious that these were made not to save your skin but to make a fashion statement. Fashion statements loose some of their impact when delivered from a hospital bed. If you really are worried about fashion and "pulling the chics" and so on, think on this - would you French-kiss someone with a skin-graft?

Right, we've got past the Ugly, only the Good and the Bad left. How do we tell them apart ? Have you ever seen a suit of racing leathers ? Well, here's the bad news - they're boring (apart from the colour schemes). None of the Mad Max shoulder pads or any of that shit - just plain old leather, and lots of it. They have almost no straps anywhere, no pockets, very few fastenings. They also have as few seams as possible, by being constructed of only a few, large, pieces of leather. This reduces the number of seams - seams being the weak points of a suit. Racing leathers are also skin tight.

No, I'm not suggesting that we all run out and buy one piece racing suits. My point is that if the leathers you're looking at look not at all like race leathers, then this probably tells you something about their quality. Not definitely, but probably. Anything extra is probably making things worse - eg. straps, zippers, studs, etc - they weaken the leather and in a crash will either dig into your flesh, or rip off, leaving your flesh rubbing along the road. Use your common sense - if it looks silly, it probably is. Don't buy leathers with "I'm a dork" spelled out in metal studs on the back just cos the salesman says they're great.

Okay, so I've settled on something that looks the part. Is it as good as it looks ? Close inspection time. The easiest thing to check is just the shape of the jacket. If someone tried to physically pull it off you, would it come off easily ? If so, it will definitely come off in a crash. The arms should get narrower towards the wrist, to stop them sliding up your arms. The body should be shaped to stop it riding up your torso.

Next, the zips. These should NOT be metal - they should be nylon, but good chunky ones all the same. How do you tell what they're made of? Simple, the metal ones look like metal ! If they don't look like metal, they probably aren't, because most makers leave the metal bare because paint would just chip off. Any coloured zips will probably be nylon (even if the colour is black). Another good clue is that cuff (ie. wrist) zips should be on the inside of the arm, not the outside. If they haven't got that right, they've probably made some other mistakes as well.

Next, the stitching. Just take a good look at it. You should expect to see double stitching (ie. two rows of stitching side by side) on all the major seams - front, shoulders, etc. Is the stitching regular (ie. the gaps between the stitches are the same size) ? Are there any dropped stitches (ie. the thread just goes straight for a bit where'd you'd expect a stitch to be) ? Learn to recognise an inch - for me this is the distance from the tip of my index finger to the first knuckle. Find a similar handy (no pun intended) measure. Count the number of stitches in an inch - there should be more than 7 and less than 12 (usually 7-8 or 10). Too few and the stitching is too weak - too many and the leather will be weakened by the stitching.

Now the actual construction of the leather. Easiest to check are the areas where there should be double thickness leather. These are your "impact points" - the knees, hips/arse, elbows and shoulders (UK arse = US ass). How do you tell if they're double thickness ? In some cases, it looks really obvious, because an extra piece of leather is stitched onto the outside - however, you still have to check that the it has been layed on top of the original leather, and not just sew in (which would be very bad news). Get one hand inside and one outside. If it's double-layered, you should be able to separate the layers a little by working at it with both hands. Also of great importance is a quick look at how the garment has been designed. Has it been put together with the minimum number of "panels" (the separate pieces of leather which make up the garment) - remember : the more panels, the more seams; the more seams, the weaker the leathers. How do you tighten/loosen them ? Are there buckles or stretch panels ? Buckles should be far enough away from the impact points to avoid them digging into you when you meet the tarmac. Stretch panels are generally made of a thinner leather, so they also should not be too near to the impact points. The most important thing is actually the most difficult to work out - the thickness of the leather. For this you'll just have to check the labels, or ask the staff. The leather should be at LEAST 1mm thick - anything thinner is complete crap : most decent suits will have at least 1.3mm and maybe up to 1.5mm if your lucky.

Right, now we come to the area that had me REALLY digging. Padding/Body armour. Everybody talks about it. If you listen to the advertising, Joe Bloggs' leathers are better than everyone else's because they've got Protectoshite body armour. The beauty of it all is that is that almost all of it is actually complete crap!

Looking about, I could see all these claims and counter-claims, and I knew they couldn't ALL be true, so I did some research. Eventually I got back to what seems to me to the proverbial horse's mouth. The guy's name is Dr Rod Woods, and he works in Cambridge, England, UK. He has a materials testing lab where he's working on a new EC Personal Protective Equipment Directive (EC = European Community). He seems to know what he's talking about, and he doesn't mind talking about it - even to the likes of me. I won't tell you how to contact him because the guy has a job to do and he won't be too pleased with me if I set the whole internet to phoning him all the time. If you're any good at research and you WANT to, you'll be able to find him as well.

What this guy told me was that there's only one sort of padding that's worth having, and almost nobody uses it ! It's made of a compound call Polynorbonene (it should be 8mm thick), and it sells (in Europe) under two trade names, Norsorex and Noene. It's a SOFT padding. The Doc says HARD padding in a complete no-no. In the first place it doesn't absorb impact - it passes it straight on to your body. In the second place, the rigid shape of the pad is likely to rip straight out of the leathers, leaving your skin to get acquainted with the ground. "But", I said to the good doctor "Surely hard pads help if the hit something sharp." "Well, it might," says he, "but statistically speaking, that doesn't happen !" This is when we got into an involved discussion about statistics.

Now, the following piece is based on the Good Doctor's knowledge of the statistics. Me, personally, I don't want to argue with the guy. It seems to me that he's been in contact with most of the major hospitals in the UK. I can't compete with that personally.

The Good Doctor tells me that, statistically speaking, you want to protect yourself from the feet up. He tells me about this idea of a rating of the frequency with which an injury occurs (over, say the UK in a year) and the dehabilitation caused by the injury. Turn the statistics into betting odds, and we're talking about your chances of not being able to walk after a crash. Now, the Good Doctor says that this rating DECREASES as you go up the body, ie.fewer people are dehabilitated from chest injuries or back injuries than from foot injuries. Yes, I found it hard to believe too, but he's got the st atistics ! That means, protect your feet first, then your legs, then your body. He admits that there's a peak at the head, ie. the head causes more dehabilitation than the body, but from there down, this rule holds.

I openly admit that this all came as news to me. I told him all sorts of scenarios - chest injuries from upper body impact : ruptured kidneys from back impact : broken back from back impact - he told me that statistically speaking, they just don't happen. Back injuries seldom happen to bikers - and those that do would not be prevented by back protectors. "How so ?", I ask him. Well, statistically speaking, all back injuries in bikers (and they're few and far between) involve bending or twisting of the back - like when you r shoulder or chin hits the ground hard, with resultant detrimental effects on your back. Back protector won't help there, pal. He tells me that broken ankles are the most common injury you can imagine. Compare them to broken backs and you're talking mountains and molehills. Surprising stuff. Time to revise my ideas on protection.

Okay, so what can we draw from all this. Polynorbonene is the only padding to have. I don't know of anyone in the US supplying the stuff, and only three in the UK. Please e-mail me for details, if you want. On the other hand, I'm sure you're going to turn round and tell me that the stuff has been in the US for years, and how come we haven't heard of it?

The next point is very interesting - you need more protection to your feet and legs than to any other part of the body (apart from the head). How many salespeople have you heard saying that ? "None" is my answer. So don't believe the salespeople.

So to sum up, my advice to anyone thinking about leathers would be as follows :-

Before you do anything else, go out and buy yourself a decent pair of boots, with built-in ankle protection. By that, I don't mean armour in the boot, what's more important is that the boot grips the ankle so that any twisting or bending action is prevented. Take a look at a good quality pair of mountaineering boots for an example of this. They're built specifically to protect against this, since it's easy to break an ankle on uneven ground and it's then a big problem getting home.
Then buy yourself a good pair of leather jeans, double-layered in the right places, and padded (in the same places) with Polynorbonene (if you can find it).
Lastly, buy a jacket with the same double-layering and padding rules.
Right, as soon as I post this, I'm sure half the net is going to flame me, but what the hell. I wrote it in the hope that it would be of some help to someone, and I stand by that.
Good luck with your leathers!

[Banditten]

Humm ... Meget interessant !!

Har hørt det der med fødderne før ... men det med "Padding" og rygbeskyttere er seriøse nyheder !

[Freddy]

Det er faktisk et rigtig godt indlæg. Og særdeles overraskende information.

[nyg]

Ja, det med læderets tykkelse, syninger o.s.v. er vist bare almen sund fornuft sat på tryk, men det med de hårde skaller og ulykkesstatistikken er overraskende.

Jeg vil dog fortsat have lov til at forholde lidt skeptisk overfor denne doktors syn på de hårde beskyttelsesskaller.  Især fordi det er dem som bærer EC-godkendelserne.  Hvis de var så farlige som han får det til at lyde, så er det da underligt at han ikke har haft større held med at få regulativerne ændret.

Det er muligt der er et bedre alternativ derude, men hvor mon man kan købe det henne?
(en google søgning på de to varemærker giver ikke nogen resultater hvad MC-beklædning angår)

Der er vist heller ikke nogen producenter af rygbeskyttere der hævder at yde fuldkommen beskyttelse og sikkerhed mod rygskader, vel? Jeg beholder i hvert fald min på fremover.

[Freddy]

Jeg kan nu også godt lide de hårde skaller. Og på skallerne fra de gode mærker sidder der jo oftest også noget skum på indersiden. Og selve skallerne er som regel også med bløde, afrundede kanter og hjørner. Mon ikke det netop er fordi producenterne har tænkt over det med at skallerne ellers ville blive flået ud af lommerne?

I øvrigt er det vist Hein Gerickes PSX dragter, der netop har sådan noget blødt "impact-skum", som efter sigende skulle blive hårdt ved slag, og derved tage det meste af energien fra sammenstødet.

[nyg]

Jo, det lader til at Hein-Gericke anvender noget der ligner i deres Hiprotec varemærke - det er bare Polystyrol (=polystyren) i stedet for Polynorbonene.
Men det er altså et blødt materiale af en vis tykkelse.

Det som skribenten ovefor i hvertfald har fat i, er at det er strengt taget umuligt at finde ud af hvad der skidt, og hvad der er kanel blandt alle de mere eller mindre lødige beskyttelsesstandarder.
Til trods for de gældende EU bestemmelser.

Jeg fandt nedenstående beskrivelse af vidundermidlet på rubberworld.com (ikke noget frækt dér)

Common name POLYNORBORNENE RUBBER
Chemical name  
Abbreviation PNB
Trade names Norsorex*
This rubber is generally used for specialist applications where a very soft material is required. Materials can be produced in the range 15 - 25 IRHD with good damping properties, which is more like a jelly than a conventional rubber. It is therefore used for vibration absorption. It is not oil resistant and has an upper temperature limit of around 70C.
 

[Paw]

Nyg, nu betyder det her vel ikke et farvel til den dragt vi alle er kommet til at holde så meget af  

"Syet af Polske børnearbejdere" Hø hø hø

[nyg]

Nyg, nu betyder det her vel ikke et farvel til den dragt vi alle er kommet til at holde så meget af  

"Syet af Polske børnearbejdere" Hø hø hø

Nej da, jeg har lige vasket den i sæbespåner og gnubbet den i marvolie, så nu er den god som ny.

Men ikke meget renere at se på...
Det kan Freddy (Zierra) fortælle hvordan det har ser ud. Han vil nok kunne huske den fra da den blot var et par år gammel. (vi kørte begge i Elmer-MC i Holstebro, dvs. freddy reparerede mest på sin mens jeg kørte...     )

Men jo, en ny skal der til i løbet af sæsonen, men jeg skal jo nmok have en specialsyet så det bliver ikke helt billigt...  

[nyg]

http://www.rogerford.info/armour.htm

Et andet perskektiv på beskyttelse og EU direktiver.

[Havenissen]

Særdeles interessant læsning, er ikke sikker på at hele sandheden er med, men helt klart interessant!

Det med at man skal starte beskyttelsen nedefra er meget nyt for mig, men ved nærmere eftertanke giver det helt klart mening. Det med at fise rundt i kondisko og cowbouybusker, og så lige klare "beskyttelsen" med jakke og handsker er hermed dementeret totalt, hvilket helt klart er vand på min mølle   Jeg havde på et tidspunkt en kæreste der studerede medicin, og på en af hendes fadel-vagter passede hun en ung man der skulle have amputeret det ene ben fordi han kørte på motorcykel i cowboybukser, den slags sætte sine spor.

Mht. de hårde skaller har jeg dog mine tvivl. Da jeg fik mit nye udstyr sidste sæson prøvede jeg lidt forskelligt som f.eks. at knalde albuen ind i en væg og se hvor meget CE beskyttelsen hjalp. Jeg ved godt at jeg på ingen måde kan genskabe den kraft et styrt udløser, men jeg kunne intet mærke på min albue, og det ser jeg som et godt tegn. Hvis der blot var tale om en stenhård skal uden nogen stødabsorberende ville det naturligvis være sandt at den gjorde mere skade en gavn, men en moderne fleksibel skal med indbygget stødabsorbering kan jeg kun se som en klar fordel ved styrt.

Havde faktisk overvejet at købe ny jakke til kæresten før busker og støvler, men tror det bliver den anden vej rundt nu  

[Freddy]

vi kørte begge i Elmer-MC i Holstebro

Øhh... gjorde vi det? Haha, det er jo 13-14 år siden Men hvem pokker er du så?

[Jannik]

Men jo, en ny skal der til i løbet af sæsonen, men jeg skal jo nmok have en specialsyet så det bliver ikke helt billigt...  

Prøv at hør www.Alex-mc.dk han har forbindelse til en producent der også specialsyr dragter, så mon ikke i kan finde en god pris på det??

[Alex]

Har lige læst det hele igennem, og bestemt interessant læsning.

det med beskyttelse på benene, kommer ikke som nogen overraskelse, men det giver helt klart mening.
(så må hellere se af få skiftet de relativt bløde støvler ud.)

og de hårde skaller i dragten vil jeg nu også gerne beholde.  

har lige fået taget mål/bestilt en ny dragt, leverignstid 6-8 uger.

[Bongers]

Hummmm Hvis den nye Jesus har ret kommer der sikkert mange flere artikler    

Det med hård Vs. Bløde skaller – Tror jeg gøre en forskel hvis man rammer noget. Tror at håre skaller gode til at slå smut / glide over vejen med (som det ses på racerbaner) men det hjælper ikke meget når man rammer noget. Men tror heller ikke bløde skaller på 8 mm, kan optage den kraft der udløses, når mine 83 kg, rammer et vej træ med 100 Km/t (så havde vi med sikkerhed hørt om produktet!)

Jeg har altid lært at man skal passe på sine organer, så derfor vil jeg stadig se på beskyttelse af overkroppen – selv om jeg er ret sikke på at langt de fleste uheld, er ”små” uheld som brækket ankler og lårbrud !

Men fin artikel, godt med nogle nye synspunkter!

[Capone]

Hummmm Hvis den nye Jesus har ret kommer der sikkert mange flere artikler    

Det med hård Vs. Bløde skaller – Tror jeg gøre en forskel hvis man rammer noget. Tror at håre skaller gode til at slå smut / glide over vejen med (som det ses på racerbaner) men det hjælper ikke meget når man rammer noget. Men tror heller ikke bløde skaller på 8 mm, kan optage den kraft der udløses, når mine 83 kg, rammer et vej træ med 100 Km/t (så havde vi med sikkerhed hørt om produktet!)

Jeg har altid lært at man skal passe på sine organer, så derfor vil jeg stadig se på beskyttelse af overkroppen – selv om jeg er ret sikke på at langt de fleste uheld, er ”små” uheld som brækket ankler og lårbrud !

Men fin artikel, godt med nogle nye synspunkter!

I fremtiden vil jeg så køre med skridtbeskytter istedet for hjelm